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Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

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Bilby
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Bilby » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:17 pm

The last thing I want to be carring around with me in a 'bugging out alone' situation, is a gun/s and boxes of bullets ...what load whilst on the run! The best way to get myself killed in the middle of the shtf, is to fire off a round or two or three. The thought of being as loud as possible seems idiotic to me. Being quiet and camouflaged, whether in an urban or natural environment is the key to my survival. It is much easier and safer to hunt and fish without guns.



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Frostbite
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Frostbite » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:33 am

Really? If you were trying to survive after shtf and you heard gunfire would you move toward it or away from it?



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Keith
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Keith » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:53 am

Bilby wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:17 pm
The last thing I want to be carring around with me in a 'bugging out alone' situation, is a gun/s and boxes of bullets ...what load whilst on the run! The best way to get myself killed in the middle of the shtf, is to fire off a round or two or three. The thought of being as loud as possible seems idiotic to me. Being quiet and camouflaged, whether in an urban or natural environment is the key to my survival. It is much easier and safer to hunt and fish without guns.
Different people will always agree & disagree on the subject of using a gun over a bow, personally I would like to carry both. Bow & arrow are not much defence against a gun, & although we will be keeping as low a profile as we can, we can't ignore the fact that we may at some time find ourselves having to defend ourselves.
When shooting game with a gun you have to work fast, take the game & leave the area. Small game is easy, larger game you just take the hind legs, unless you have enough people to field dress the game & stand watch at the same time. Even then that shot may bring unwanted company & you may be outnumbered.
In my family group we have bows & guns; muzzle-loaders & breach-loaders.
Keith.


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/
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Warrigal
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Warrigal » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:33 am

The idea of carrying a longarm and handgun for foraging and possible self defence is a perfectly valid concept and one which has been well proven under the kinds of situations which Survivalists prep for.

I agree that keeping a low profile under the conditions being discussed in this thread will of the utmost importance.

For that reason I would advocate carrying a few snares as these are quiet, efficient, weigh little and take up little space.

I do not see myself hunting in the sense we do now in a SHTF gug out situation but rather "foraging," meaning taking game as,when and if the opportunity presents itself.

I do not have enough experience of flintlocks as hunting kit to be able to make many intelligent noises about them but I see no reason why a Survivalist who is highly familiar with these arms would be all that disadvantaged by using them even though at this stage I would personally opt for a .357 Magnum lever action carbine and a double or single action revolver in the same calibre.

This kit would be adequate for most Australian game animals, at least where I live.

The combination is also very versatile and having both long arm and handgun chambered for the same cartridge would eliminate the need to carry more than one type of ammunition.

Lever actions are NOT my favourite action type but they will do their job if you do yours and even though I would prefer a pump action to a lever, I know of no manufacturer currently making a pump action .357 Magnum carbine any longer.

The value of a handgun to the man on the land or the Survivalist is that a handgun leaves you with both hands free for work while the gun is secured to your person where it is out of the way till needed.

The handgun is also useful in a foraging scenario as it can be accessed stealthily without any excessive movement on your part which may spook any animal you are trying to take for food.

Handguns are viable hunting kit although sadly very underestimated for this purpose in Australia propbably because so many States either disallow handgun hunting or do their best to discourage it.

Many world jurisdictions do the same with bow hunting making even the mere possession of broadheads a serious offence.

Have an effective means of defence from feral dogs is hardly paranoia for many people in rural Australia even now!

Post SHTF I expect dog packs to be a short term, but very real threat for people in both the cities and the countryside.

Possible self defence from any feral humans who may be wandering around is also a perfectly reasonable cause for including a handgun in your bug out kit.



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Keith
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Keith » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:03 am

Warrigal wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:33 am
The idea of carrying a longarm and handgun for foraging and possible self defence is a perfectly valid concept and one which has been well proven under the kinds of situations which Survivalists prep for.

I agree that keeping a low profile under the conditions being discussed in this thread will of the utmost importance.

For that reason I would advocate carrying a few snares as these are quiet, efficient, weigh little and take up little space.

I do not see myself hunting in the sense we do now in a SHTF gug out situation but rather "foraging," meaning taking game as,when and if the opportunity presents itself.

I do not have enough experience of flintlocks as hunting kit to be able to make many intelligent noises about them but I see no reason why a Survivalist who is highly familiar with these arms would be all that disadvantaged by using them even though at this stage I would personally opt for a .357 Magnum lever action carbine and a double or single action revolver in the same calibre.

This kit would be adequate for most Australian game animals, at least where I live.

The combination is also very versatile and having both long arm and handgun chambered for the same cartridge would eliminate the need to carry more than one type of ammunition.

Lever actions are NOT my favourite action type but they will do their job if you do yours and even though I would prefer a pump action to a lever, I know of no manufacturer currently making a pump action .357 Magnum carbine any longer.

The value of a handgun to the man on the land or the Survivalist is that a handgun leaves you with both hands free for work while the gun is secured to your person where it is out of the way till needed.

The handgun is also useful in a foraging scenario as it can be accessed stealthily without any excessive movement on your part which may spook any animal you are trying to take for food.

Handguns are viable hunting kit although sadly very underestimated for this purpose in Australia propbably because so many States either disallow handgun hunting or do their best to discourage it.

Many world jurisdictions do the same with bow hunting making even the mere possession of broadheads a serious offence.

Have an effective means of defence from feral dogs is hardly paranoia for many people in rural Australia even now!

Post SHTF I expect dog packs to be a short term, but very real threat for people in both the cities and the countryside.

Possible self defence from any feral humans who may be wandering around is also a perfectly reasonable cause for including a handgun in your bug out kit.
Good point re the feral dogs, I have been attacked by feral dogs in the past. A bow I guess would be okay for defence in that situation up until they are on you, then not of much use. Then again it is much the same with a gun, in the end if it is a pack, it comes down to clubbing them with the rifle/gun or using a knife or tomahawk. Anyway, I think you need to be prepared for these situations & go well armed.
One advantage re the gun though, the noise of a gun will often send dogs running. On one occasion only the one dog kept coming at me & I managed to stop him before he reached me, just!
Keith.


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/
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Bilby
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Bilby » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 pm

I've been reading more of what's in here, especially regarding rifles and the like. It seems that most preppers on this site are male and guns of any kind are the most essential survival item. Whilst growing up from childhood with bolt action .22 type rifles, I have always found them cumbersome to walk around with and holding steady to shoot. I'm only 5ft and not a physically strong middle-aged woman now. From a prepping viewpoint, I make up for these short comings by being mentally strong, extremely resourceful and with a wide skill base. I'll only be hunting small introduced species like rabbits and foxes to eat. I have a large land holding and there's enough rabbits and foxes to live off for the rest of my life there. I've grown up trapping rabbits on land in the day and eels in rivers at night for food. From my viewpoint, guns of any kind are not the weapon of choice here. One shot from a firearm will send animals underground and me too. My dad made me a ripper hunting knife decades ago from the highest grade steel and I'll trust that to survive with over a gun anytime. I find ferrets great to hunt with and they aren't noisy, although the little buggers bite hard.
When the SHTF, I'll be hiding my guns and ammo away. For me to survive, I believe it's paramount that I stay very quiet and away from as much of the human population as I can. I pay painful attention to what's happening to women in war torn areas around the world. What happens to women when men catch them, scares the crap out of me and is my biggest fear for when war comes to our shores. I can't fight or hunt big game like you guys, but I can survive like a marsupial and help others out. If I can't stay on my prepping property to survive during the coming war, then my chances of making it through and living beyond the aftermath of it aren't good at all.



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Bilby
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Bilby » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:16 pm

In answer to Frostbite's question specific to me; if there was an invader that herd the shot, they'd go after you and hunt you down.



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Warrigal
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Warrigal » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:07 am

Hi Bilby.

Longarms can be cumbersome which is one more reason that handgun deserves to be treated with far higher regard as a survival tool than most Aussies are wont to give them in my view.

Even a quality sports pistol or revolver in .22 LR will make a very useful game getter where survival foraging is concerned and several highly ranked handgun hunters around the world have been on record as saying for many years that a .22 calibre pistols
have probably taken more small and medium sized game than all the purpose built hunting handguns in Magnum calibres combined.

This is highly credible to me since several long distance trekking expeditions in very out of the way parts of the wolrd in which the members of said expeditions traveled on foot and went ultra light in their choice of kit provided .22 calibre handguns to their personnel along with, in one case, a single rabbit trap per person on an expedition in Argentina during the 1960's which lasted some months and st no time did anyone in the team go hungry.

Indeed the record states that even though eack person carried .22 calibre pistol and one box of 50 cartridges when the mission was completed plenty of ammunition was left over and the guns saw almost as much use as the rabbit traps.

Provided sub sonic ammunition is used the report of .22 does NOT travel far.

Depending on what kind of action type your .22 rifle is you should experiment with .22 short and .22 CB Longs.

.22 shorts make little noise and when fired from a rifle with about 24 - 26 of barrel length .22 CB's are so quiet that a muffler is unneccessary making this combination almost ideal for any forager who must take small game in or near any built up area or other risky location in which extreme low profile is essential.

A handgun is also good in those circumstance and arguably lower profile than a rifle.

I would advocate choosing a good .22 revolver myself as these will reliably chamber short, long and long rifle ammo along with CB or BB ammo.

Don't kid yourself that only women and kids will need to "survive like a marsupial."

No solitary individual or small group of survivors can afford to be confrontationalists much less risk casualties from avoidable conflict.

However just about everyone will require a reliable means of taken game and also of close range defence agains feral animals and feral people.

If you are not strong then about the only weapon for either food foraging or possible self defence IS a gun!

By all means hide MOST of your guns if you own a battery of them but do bear in mind that if you cache hem they are NOT quickly available to you.

Where survival foraging is concerned, you will need any firearm you hope to use for that purpose ready to hand under all circumstances and this once again makes the handgun invaluable.



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Frostbite
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Frostbite » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:13 am

A .22 rifle with cci subsonic ammo is as quiet as a bow and much more accurate. No prohibited item required off the muzzle.

I believe bilby has a mental aversion to firearms. Her physical size is irrelevant. My daughter, at 5ft nothing and 43kg carried an automatic weapon around all day without any problem.



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Keith
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Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Post by Keith » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:29 am

Bilby wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 pm
I've been reading more of what's in here, especially regarding rifles and the like. It seems that most preppers on this site are male and guns of any kind are the most essential survival item. Whilst growing up from childhood with bolt action .22 type rifles, I have always found them cumbersome to walk around with and holding steady to shoot. I'm only 5ft and not a physically strong middle-aged woman now. From a prepping viewpoint, I make up for these short comings by being mentally strong, extremely resourceful and with a wide skill base. I'll only be hunting small introduced species like rabbits and foxes to eat. I have a large land holding and there's enough rabbits and foxes to live off for the rest of my life there. I've grown up trapping rabbits on land in the day and eels in rivers at night for food. From my viewpoint, guns of any kind are not the weapon of choice here. One shot from a firearm will send animals underground and me too. My dad made me a ripper hunting knife decades ago from the highest grade steel and I'll trust that to survive with over a gun anytime. I find ferrets great to hunt with and they aren't noisy, although the little buggers bite hard.
When the SHTF, I'll be hiding my guns and ammo away. For me to survive, I believe it's paramount that I stay very quiet and away from as much of the human population as I can. I pay painful attention to what's happening to women in war torn areas around the world. What happens to women when men catch them, scares the crap out of me and is my biggest fear for when war comes to our shores. I can't fight or hunt big game like you guys, but I can survive like a marsupial and help others out. If I can't stay on my prepping property to survive during the coming war, then my chances of making it through and living beyond the aftermath of it aren't good at all.
Bilby I think you are underestimating your capabilities, & what you would be prepared to do in order to survive. Guns to my way of thinking are an equalizer, & that is what you NEED. I would probably not be here today had I not had a gun. I am not claiming it is the be all & end all, but there are occasions when nothing else but a gun will do.

Totally agree that there are other important tools to have & carry, a good knife & for me, a tomahawk. I also agree that trapping will supply you with most of your food. You can't survive on rabbit meat alone, but there are goats, wild boar, ducks & other fowls. All can be trapped. I think you should expand your thinking Bilby, from reading your comments I feel that you are more than capable of looking after yourself in a variety of situations. You are a prepper after all.
Regards, Keith.


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/
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