Welcome to the Australian Preppers Forum. The forum runs on a secure platform and is optimised for mobile devices. Register to get involved. Get started with an Introduction here or by letting us know "What Are You Prepping for?"

What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

'Nuff said. Lets talk.
notasyoung
Posts in topic: 20
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:02 pm

Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by notasyoung » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:26 pm

Grumpy wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:39 am
My basic firearms are
.22lr bolt
.223r bolt
.308w bolt
and 12g single shot

As I plan to be mobile and in company all will be with me and mine.
Grumpy, do you have multiples of firearms in these calibres amongst you? Similar firearms (reliability, parts)? Have you considered firearms security when not in possession (London to a brick there will STILL be someone trying to enforce rules). All the 'what if's'? reloading, competency, fitness, etc. Going on history being mobile is tough, everyone wants you to 'move along'.



Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

notasyoung
Posts in topic: 20
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:02 pm

Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by notasyoung » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:11 pm

Keith wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:08 am
dazza1967 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:52 pm
Thoughts on combination rifles??
I quite like the idea of a .223/12gauge combination.Should be able to take down anything in Aust from duck to buffalo.
Ya just wanna make the one shot is a winner.
My main concern if I have to carry on foot is the weight of the gun & the weight of the ammo. Just how much modern ammo can one carry & how long will it last? My gun is a rifle & a shotgun all in one.
Keith.
How long will we last? How many are affected? How many are mobile? What conditions drove people out? What forms of transport are available?

Moving on foot is the toughest call. The weight of a .22lr, .22M, .410 (or combination gun), plus some sealed up ammo gives you hundreds of rounds for little weight. For hunting you should only need one round for a meal for one or two (assuming carrying some food to start with). Meat alone is not sufficient. Need to know what else you can eat.

Keith may have the right choice if it goes on for a very long time... it is just hard to imagine, although I keep coming back to Venezuela, and how long the gradual and steepening slide has gone on there. The Middle East has been embroiled in fights for how long? China has risen as a threat, as it feels threatened; the USA has withdrawn from many positions, which increase instability as others fill the vacuum. The nuclear proliferation treaty, the ballistic missile treaty, as in tatters, so risk exists.

Fitness the toughest issue for many; mental adaptation of those who have never seen it rough the biggest challenge (imagining the entitled 20 something city child stamping their foot, wanting their latte).

We live longer due to good health care, society support, not being exposed to the elements... and pills, when that goes away?
Being mobile, and standing on someones toes as you pass through 'their' patch may become an issue.
Any breakdown, depending on the form, shouldn't be permanent, but my crystal ball remains fuzzy about time frames and probabilities; mostly planning resilience, backups of everything, and the capacity to repair and maintain, covers most scenario's imaginable - medical (disease), financial (depression), war, social breakdown. Community will be important in all these, either during and/or after, being connected with others is always important; some of us have to force ourselves to socialise because it is so important for mental health and balance.

Depending on pressures e.g. a thousand people wanting one wallaby or rabbit> little game left. Hunting and gathering may be an option for some; farming and animal husbandry a good choice. Working on a property for food an accommodation may make a comeback.

Keeping the old skills alive is a challenge (basic blacksmithing, shoeing a horse, even making a shoe if you have the steel), milking a cow, butchering a beast, salting meat, the wood stove, the tricks of the old garden where washing water, and washing up water, kept things going. You cycled through the bath water (cleanest to dirtiest), and then watered the garden with the water. there was a basin of water, some soap and a towel, for everyone to wash their hands with. Making a toilet, using sawdust after you went, and in an emergency using cut up pieces of newspaper for toilet paper (which hung on a nail in the outdoor toilet). Digging a hole for the 'nightsoil, with a bar and shovel, then cleaning the drum, and putting it back - how things have changed. Listening to a radio each night when the news was on (to preserve the batteries), playing cards for entertainment. A kero fridge, kero lantern, limited fuel. filtering engine oil through a rag, so the oil change in the 'good' vehicle gave you oil to put in the work vehicle (after it was filtered through rags).

Little fuel meant a once a week, to once a month trip to town... so that is a potential to return... I would suspect it would also mean trading and bartering would make a return. If riding a horse, no matter what the movies say, it is a long day or two riding, compared to a short drive, most of the time the horse is walking, a fast walking horse is valuable.

As I keep saying, community is important.

Take away the 'modern' and that's what you are back to. Hunting was more 'sport', entertainment, and something different to eat, plus keeping predators away from livestock. Gardening, livestock, that was how you survived. So a .22lr (.22m made an appearance later), a lever action rifle, a shotgun, they were the tools.



Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Grumpy
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:44 pm

Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Grumpy » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:45 pm

notasyoung wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:26 pm
Grumpy wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:39 am
My basic firearms are
.22lr bolt
.223r bolt
.308w bolt
and 12g single shot

As I plan to be mobile and in company all will be with me and mine.
Grumpy, do you have multiples of firearms in these calibres amongst you? Similar firearms (reliability, parts)? Have you considered firearms security when not in possession (London to a brick there will STILL be someone trying to enforce rules). All the 'what if's'? reloading, competency, fitness, etc. Going on history being mobile is tough, everyone wants you to 'move along'.
Yes there are multiples, Security sorted,

Not planning to be mobile often but mobile enough that I can move away if an area gets too hot!



Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

notasyoung
Posts in topic: 20
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:02 pm

Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by notasyoung » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:45 pm

I keep thinking that people are sane... I keep finding that they aren't.
From the terrorists on 9/11 attacking people of all creeds, to wars in Middle East and bombs in Bali, the Lindt Cafe siege, to the terrorist in NZ attacking Muslims. This is NOT the work of sane people. NOTHING, no belief, justifies an individual to just up and kill their fellow man. War is insanity, but the soldier has their duty; the responsibility rests with those at the top, who often don't put themselves in real harms way.
9/11, Bali, NZ massacre, THIS is not war, this is an atrocity.
We all like our firearms, to discuss scenario's and what ifs, to think and discuss what we think is the best options. We express opinions, we agree and disagree; when someone reaches that point they have lost perspective, they have become a fanatic.
THIS is why community, just getting out and talking to all sorts of people, is important. It helps give us perspective, to keep us defining right and wrong, within the norms. Yes, some of us have PTSD. Yes, some of us have short fuses. But, for God's sake, when you start seeing unarmed, normal people, men, women, and children, praying, as a target, that you can kill and broadcast all over the world, and be proud of it, you need to give up your guns, and go talk to a shrink, FAST.
Looking after yourself and your family, your community, protecting the injured and hurt, teaching kids safety, target shooting, hunting with a gun, these are all concepts we are familiar with, to which firearms relate. MURDER isn't on that list.

And as this is off topic, to return, I still favour the .22lr, .22M and .410 for Australia... no-one has changed my mind about that!



Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
Keith
Posts in topic: 14
Posts: 608
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:39 pm

Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Keith » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:15 am

notasyoung wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:11 pm
Keith wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:08 am
dazza1967 wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:52 pm
Thoughts on combination rifles??
I quite like the idea of a .223/12gauge combination.Should be able to take down anything in Aust from duck to buffalo.
Ya just wanna make the one shot is a winner.
My main concern if I have to carry on foot is the weight of the gun & the weight of the ammo. Just how much modern ammo can one carry & how long will it last? My gun is a rifle & a shotgun all in one.
Keith.
How long will we last? How many are affected? How many are mobile? What conditions drove people out? What forms of transport are available?

Moving on foot is the toughest call. The weight of a .22lr, .22M, .410 (or combination gun), plus some sealed up ammo gives you hundreds of rounds for little weight. For hunting you should only need one round for a meal for one or two (assuming carrying some food to start with). Meat alone is not sufficient. Need to know what else you can eat.

Keith may have the right choice if it goes on for a very long time... it is just hard to imagine, although I keep coming back to Venezuela, and how long the gradual and steepening slide has gone on there. The Middle East has been embroiled in fights for how long? China has risen as a threat, as it feels threatened; the USA has withdrawn from many positions, which increase instability as others fill the vacuum. The nuclear proliferation treaty, the ballistic missile treaty, as in tatters, so risk exists.

Fitness the toughest issue for many; mental adaptation of those who have never seen it rough the biggest challenge (imagining the entitled 20 something city child stamping their foot, wanting their latte).

We live longer due to good health care, society support, not being exposed to the elements... and pills, when that goes away?
Being mobile, and standing on someones toes as you pass through 'their' patch may become an issue.
Any breakdown, depending on the form, shouldn't be permanent, but my crystal ball remains fuzzy about time frames and probabilities; mostly planning resilience, backups of everything, and the capacity to repair and maintain, covers most scenario's imaginable - medical (disease), financial (depression), war, social breakdown. Community will be important in all these, either during and/or after, being connected with others is always important; some of us have to force ourselves to socialise because it is so important for mental health and balance.

Depending on pressures e.g. a thousand people wanting one wallaby or rabbit> little game left. Hunting and gathering may be an option for some; farming and animal husbandry a good choice. Working on a property for food an accommodation may make a comeback.

Keeping the old skills alive is a challenge (basic blacksmithing, shoeing a horse, even making a shoe if you have the steel), milking a cow, butchering a beast, salting meat, the wood stove, the tricks of the old garden where washing water, and washing up water, kept things going. You cycled through the bath water (cleanest to dirtiest), and then watered the garden with the water. there was a basin of water, some soap and a towel, for everyone to wash their hands with. Making a toilet, using sawdust after you went, and in an emergency using cut up pieces of newspaper for toilet paper (which hung on a nail in the outdoor toilet). Digging a hole for the 'nightsoil, with a bar and shovel, then cleaning the drum, and putting it back - how things have changed. Listening to a radio each night when the news was on (to preserve the batteries), playing cards for entertainment. A kero fridge, kero lantern, limited fuel. filtering engine oil through a rag, so the oil change in the 'good' vehicle gave you oil to put in the work vehicle (after it was filtered through rags).

Little fuel meant a once a week, to once a month trip to town... so that is a potential to return... I would suspect it would also mean trading and bartering would make a return. If riding a horse, no matter what the movies say, it is a long day or two riding, compared to a short drive, most of the time the horse is walking, a fast walking horse is valuable.

As I keep saying, community is important.

Take away the 'modern' and that's what you are back to. Hunting was more 'sport', entertainment, and something different to eat, plus keeping predators away from livestock. Gardening, livestock, that was how you survived. So a .22lr (.22m made an appearance later), a lever action rifle, a shotgun, they were the tools.
Good post.
Image
Keith.


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/
Image

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
Keith
Posts in topic: 14
Posts: 608
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:39 pm

Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Keith » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:18 am

notasyoung wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:45 pm
I keep thinking that people are sane... I keep finding that they aren't.
From the terrorists on 9/11 attacking people of all creeds, to wars in Middle East and bombs in Bali, the Lindt Cafe siege, to the terrorist in NZ attacking Muslims. This is NOT the work of sane people. NOTHING, no belief, justifies an individual to just up and kill their fellow man. War is insanity, but the soldier has their duty; the responsibility rests with those at the top, who often don't put themselves in real harms way.
9/11, Bali, NZ massacre, THIS is not war, this is an atrocity.
We all like our firearms, to discuss scenario's and what ifs, to think and discuss what we think is the best options. We express opinions, we agree and disagree; when someone reaches that point they have lost perspective, they have become a fanatic.
THIS is why community, just getting out and talking to all sorts of people, is important. It helps give us perspective, to keep us defining right and wrong, within the norms. Yes, some of us have PTSD. Yes, some of us have short fuses. But, for God's sake, when you start seeing unarmed, normal people, men, women, and children, praying, as a target, that you can kill and broadcast all over the world, and be proud of it, you need to give up your guns, and go talk to a shrink, FAST.
Looking after yourself and your family, your community, protecting the injured and hurt, teaching kids safety, target shooting, hunting with a gun, these are all concepts we are familiar with, to which firearms relate. MURDER isn't on that list.

And as this is off topic, to return, I still favour the .22lr, .22M and .410 for Australia... no-one has changed my mind about that!
Image


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/
Image

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

notasyoung
Posts in topic: 20
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:02 pm

Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by notasyoung » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:28 pm

For those starting out, you don't need the flashest, latest, greatest, whiz bang firearm.
You need to do a course, get a licence, set up a secure place to store your firearms (a gun safe), have somewhere to shoot (or join a club), and look around. The cheapest place to start is always a .22lr. Standard ammo is still relatively cheap, Winchester is produced in Australia.
There are Australian manufactured old .22lr rifles like the Lithgow/Slazenger 1, 1A or 1B single shot, which are a take down, single shot, bolt action rifle, made around the 1950's, but made from left over .303 material from WWII (the barrel is thick because it is a .303 Mk III* SMLE barrel drilled as a .22lr). They are a simple, reliable, rifle, around $100 AUD.
After this Lithgow/Slazenger made the model 12, bolt action repeater (5 shot mag, detachable), 24" barrel, and the Model 55 (10 shot mag), 21 " barrel, both takedown, both made with left over WWII SMLE material. Both reliable, and Australian made.
There were American rifles around the same time, like the Winchester Cooey, .22lr and single shot shotgun, also available cheaply, simple, takedown, designs.
The British had .22lr bolt action repeaters like the BSA Sportsman 5 (a good, long barreled, take down, detachable magazine .22lr).
Then you start moving to more expensive with your Anschutz, CZ, Bruno model 2, etc.
Above this you have your new bought rifles, including the current iteration of the excellent .22lr (and other calibres), Lithgow manufactured (Australian) LA101 rifles.
You will see a lot of talk about the latest and greatest 'survival' rifle, and how they are a takedown etc... Well, go back to the 1940'2 and 50's and that was just standard.
Combination rifles are available second hand, if you haven't the dough for the latest .22WMR (.22M is same thing) over .410 Savage Model 42, or prefer another combination.
There are many simple, basic shotguns, available, cheaply. Try it and check it fits you first, if you can... an expensive shotgun that doesn't 'fit' is worse than a cheap one that does. An exposed hammer single shot shotgun is the simplest mechanism firearm there is (just make sure it has a recoil pad, for 12G)! A longer barrel shotgun usually gives you more 'swing' when shooting ducks, rabbits, clay targets, and a more concentrated pattern at distance; a shorter barrel is handier in tight country (scrub) but may spread more, and have more perceived 'kick'. A choke is a restriction (a taper) in the end of the barrel that may 'tighten' a pattern. This is relevant to shotgun shooting.
There are others areas where you can learn and experiment, like reloading, which can make things cheaper, as you progress.
There is information (good and bad) available on line, if you get stuck.
Preparation is about 'what ifs'... What if the power goes out, what if a pipe breaks and we have no water, what if there was a big storm and all the supermarket shelves got cleaned out, what if there's a general strike, and no public transport, what if the credit cards won't work, what if I had to evacuate??... the next question is "so what would I do, how can I prepare, just in case?". Your grandparents, great grand parents, did it automatically. They had a pantry, they had a garden, they had a water tank, they had a kero lantern (ps use lantern oil, not kero> it doesn't stink). Gaining knowledge, having some built in resilience is part of that. Learning to shoot, gaining the confidence that you have acquired another skill, competing against others if you like, is a part of that. It can also get you out of the house, enjoying life, socialising, and exercising.
Always remember safety, and fun.
Australia is a big country, with a lot of great people. If you mind your manners you may be able to get to go shooting on someones property, when competent. Chris



Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post