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What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

'Nuff said. Lets talk.
immelmann
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by immelmann » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:24 pm

.22LR (CZUB, my preference) Rifle - just get close enough (inside and outside bow distances) for small game meat that you can consume short term. You can also leave the hunt area carrying that game weight quickly gut dressed and fully prepare it in a more secure location. The gut can be used to lure pigs or use as fishing bait.



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notasyoung
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by notasyoung » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:50 pm

.22lr, .22WMR (cause everything is ALWAYS just out of range of a .22), .410 shotgun, for things that wriggle, or quack, as well as close pigs... 12g cause bigger is better... and the list is endless, but yes, a .22lr rifle is a good start!



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MikeA
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by MikeA » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:47 pm

notasyoung wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:50 pm
.22lr, .22WMR (cause everything is ALWAYS just out of range of a .22), .410 shotgun, for things that wriggle, or quack, as well as close pigs... 12g cause bigger is better... and the list is endless, but yes, a .22lr rifle is a good start!
In this case a .22/410 or .22WMR combo rifle would be ideal, what do you think?



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Keith
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Keith » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:57 pm

I don't think this is about being in Australia, we have everything from rabbits to buffalo, or at least we used to! In the Territory I would head shoot Geese, sometimes two with one shot with a .22. I hunted Buffalo with a .50 caliber muzzle-loading rifle. To me this all comes down to what you prefer to use. If I can only carry one gun, then I choose my .60 caliber/20 gauge flintlock fusil. Why? Because it is versatile & sustainable. I can shoot anything from small birds with shot to goats, roos & wild boar with buckshot or round ball or buck & ball. IF a lock spring breaks I can replace it. If it breaks again & I have no spares then I use the gun as a matchlock or tinderlock. Same with my .70 caliber smoothbore pistol. I can remould the spent lead retrieved from shot game, & I can carry extra gunpowder in gunpowder bags that will add very little extra weight (unlike modern ammunition).

These firearms were used in the settlement of both New Worlds, & have been in constant use for over 300 years. I honestly don't know of any other firearm that I can claim is as good as a muzzle-loading gun/rifle for long term bush survival. But like I said, this is a personal choice.

Yes I have modern breach loading guns & rifles, & if we have to go further into the bush from our off grid home in the forest, as a family we will carry these guns with us.
Keith.


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/
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notasyoung
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by notasyoung » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:31 pm

MikeA wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:47 pm
notasyoung wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:50 pm
.22lr, .22WMR (cause everything is ALWAYS just out of range of a .22), .410 shotgun, for things that wriggle, or quack, as well as close pigs... 12g cause bigger is better... and the list is endless, but yes, a .22lr rifle is a good start!
In this case a .22/410 or .22WMR combo rifle would be ideal, what do you think?
If you were limited to one rifle, and knew it well, then a .22WMR/.410 or similar would probably suite. If walking they are light, you have multiple options, with your .22WMR plus either .410 shot for rabbits, OOO SG or solid for larger animals. There is no one 'ideal' 'perfect' rifle or combination, but if you know the one you have well, that 'fits' you, and you understand what it can do, then that is the right one for you. Most only let you zero for one barrel, then aim off for the other barrel if required.

People have 'survived' in times gone past with a simple single shot .22lr, or shotgun (the Cooey range, which became Winchester Cooey, are testament to that, they, like our own Lithgow Slazenger rifles have lasted and passed down through generations because they are simple, reliable, and functional). I just bought a Cooey model 39 .22lr single shot as another trainer, because they are amongst the 'safest' .22lr rifle around, for kids shooting, and cheap. Similar to the Slazenger 1B, both are accurate, and long lasting.

The .22WMR with a low power scope just gives a bit more 'reach'. For open sights the .22lr is about as good as many shoot. You don't have to go expensive, just keep an eye out, and buy what you like. The greatest advantage of the .22lr remains the price of ammunition (and the weight). Just ensure you keep the ammunition dry (vacuum pack a brick, split up into a 4 packets lots, is a good idea for looking after it, storage in an airconditioned room for even temperature is also good).

Some people are surprised that ammunition is temperature sensitive, but it has an explosive in it, which reacts differently depending on conditions, including if its been sitting in the sun.

Remember that agricultural trumps hunting as a 'survival' tool. So growing food is more reliable than hunting. Hunting is there to supplement (and I like rabbit), society progressed when humans moved from hunter gatherer to settled agricultural systems (I use the term 'progressed' loosely, I know).



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Bug
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Bug » Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:07 pm

22LR. Cheap, ammunition is plentiful, quiet, low recoil.



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notasyoung
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by notasyoung » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:53 am

notasyoung wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:53 am
Frostbite, no worries.

As noted, I like the .410, for close range stuff.

I am currently debating the purchase of something like a .22lr Lithgow Model 12, which is the bolt action repeater from the 1950's, or even another Lithgow 1B. They were made as a takedown, because back then it was easier to carry, and they were designed as bunny busters, built out of steel and timber left over from WWII. Another rifle that will last a lifetime, because of the quality of the barrel steel (.303 rifle barrel steel). I am considering getting one, and changing the sites over to better open sites, then grooving it for a scope as well.

1. They are reasonably cheap.
2. They are designed to be taken down (as all the old ones were, with a coin slot in the single knurled 'nut' holding them together).
3. They are reliable (as with all rim fires, NEVER dry fire - firing pin may be damaged).
4. They give reasonable accuracy.
5. They are an Australian product.

I don't the money for a new Lithgow rifle (but wish I did), which will last generations (I prefer the wood stock). I already have one of the 1B's still in original good condition, which has been in the family since new. I won't disturb that one.

The BSA sportsman 5 is a British .22lr from around that time, which also still performs well enough for a walk around gun, and again, can be broken down. If you look around there are still many of the early .22lr's available, reasonably priced. They were virtually all 'take down' rifles, before it became a 'new' trend. Some cost less than the Permit to Acquire, and are good shooters!

If you want something that is quiet, and accurate, with .22lr subsonics, try the TOZ heavy barrel single shot, with a scope, which is cheap. not a real walk around gun, but good for training (as are the Lithgow single shots).
And as an update... my rifles go to kids and grandkids when I die (there is a list in gunsafe, they all know who gets what... that rifles are not to be sold, that if someone doesn't have a gun licence, or gets in trouble the guns go onto someone else's licence etc.)

So we were debating purchase of either a Winchester Cooey Model 39, single shot .22lr, or a Lithgow Model 12 bolt action repeater with 2 magazines. Whilst we were debating the original 'mint' model 39 sold, but I happen to find another for $80, in Victoria, which, with transport, cost $110 (plus PTA etc). This matches my Cooey .410 single shot. The both are older weapons, but are simple, both will outlast me (I had the plastic part on the shotgun machined in aluminum, to ensure longevity). The model 39 started production before WW2, and was made up (with various changes) into the 80's sometime. It is considered one of the 'safest' .22lr rifles, because when you close the bolt the firing pin withdraws (you can see a small gap where it is partially cocked, and captive), you then have to fully cock manually, and there is the option to engage a slot where the bolt is again manually captive and must be withdrawn out of the slot to fire). This rifle is light, has a 22inch barrel, and is designed to take down with a single screw, which is captive in the stock to avoid being lost. It is also accurate. So I bought it... but I also bought the Lithgow Model 12 (we couldn't decide, I wanted the model 39 as a trainer, they wanted the repeater) and both were the right price.

Lithgow model 12, as called a Slazenger Model 12 (produced at Lithgow small arms factory, out of left over steel and wood from WWII .303), was the next progression from the Model 1B single shot. I bought one in good order, with 2 magazines (5 shot, detachable), for $285 including forwarding to me. Both these rifles will outlive me.

My eldest son had declared he didn't want the Model 39, but when it arrived, he had 2 shots (after I had adjusted sights), straight into bull, using Winchester 42gr subsonics, realised how light it was and declared he'd found his new walk around rabbit rifle (I did point out it was mine, and meant to go to his sister... it appears neither point was relevant, to his way of thinking!!).

A side note, this particular model 39 stock is set up for a right handed shooter, so for a left hander you will need to slim down the cheek piece (that does not apply to all models, just this particular rifle).

I'm waiting on the model 12 to be available.

I am just trying to point out that having a rifle for target shooting, and small game, especially if starting out, is not expensive. .22lr has survived for so long because both it, in its simple form, and the ammunition, are relatively cheap. Its range is limited. Its accuracy is limited. But within limits they are excellent for training, competition, and hunting (and fun). A small gun safe is reasonably cheap (and a VERY good investment). Shooting can be a social event, a form of exercise, and something the family can do together.



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Frostbite
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Frostbite » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:03 pm

I just came back from a few days with a mate at his retreat, about 50km from my retreat in the NSW snowfields. Mainly fencing with a bit of hunting. I asked him what he would carry during/after shtf. He chose a suppressed select fire m4 in 223. 223 will provide food (roos, goats, small pigs, sheep), take care of predators (wild dogs, zombies), is light enough to carry all day, 30 and 42 round mags dirt cheap, can carry plenty of ammo, and you will decimate those carrying pea shooters, combo guns or muzzle loaders.

Not hard to get legally if you are prepared to jump through a few hoops. He should know, he's done it.



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Keith
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Keith » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:13 am

.32 caliber flintlock rifle with double set triggers. Will digest round ball & conicals. Just 14 grains of 3FG gunpowder is enough for small game, but it will take larger game. More powerful than a .22 rimfire. The ammunition is light to carry & you can remould spent lead retrieved from shot game. This could be the ultimate survival firearm for long term wilderness living.
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Keith.


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/
Image

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Grumpy
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Grumpy » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:53 am

Just a plain .22LR bolt rifle is hard to beat. if it has a threaded barrel one can add a suppresser when the rules no longer matter
Low noise
low weight
no smoke
little cleaning
no field reloading, no lead retrieval
A pull through and a little oil with patch's
and will last almost for ever.

500rds can be carried easy even 1,000rds if needed



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