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What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

'Nuff said. Lets talk.
Oz judge
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What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Oz judge » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:00 pm

This is for everybody. Hopefully to educate the newbies & firearm illiterate about the wonderful world of firearms. I'll kick off 1st & invite others to join in. Ps remember registered firearms owners & especially known preppers would most likely be targeted 1st. But the more registered owners out there the more tied up the moraless confiscaters will be.
My clan has settled on Henry 22 magnum lever actions as our main go too rifles. Reasons why are extremely lightweight, hold a decent amount off ammo in the magazine. Less likely to lose a tube magazine or damage one. 22 magnum has enough power to do most tasks asked of a firearm out to 100 meters with open sights. It has the power of 22lr at the muzzle @ 150ish meters. Most farmers I know have a 22 magnum as there go to around the farm gun. ( sure everyone has a preference ) so there's already quite a few out in the rural areas, which makes the ammo a good trade item & not the easiest to find so it has more trade value. It comes in a 45gr subsonic, the standard is a 40gr bullet @ 1800fps. That comes in fmj ( full metal jacket) hp hollow points & jsp jacketed soft point. Generally the hp & jsp are small pest bullets & blow up most small game , so there won't be a lot of good edible meat on a rabbit or bird . There is also 45gr & 50gr bullet loads that aren't as fast around 1550fps that would be better for meat hunting & for use on lager game up to goats , small - medium pigs / smaller deer ect. With a well placed brain shot the 22 magnum will cleanly kill anything on this continent up to 100 meters. ( brain shot )
Ammo is small & compact & fairly cheap. Not much bigger than 22lr but quite a bit smaller than 223. Also although a good bit louder than a 22 lr , it's no where near as loud as a 223. & to me stealth is everything. Ammo is about $19-30au per 50 .
As for firearms there are good revolvers that have interchangeable cylinders that shoot 22lr & 22 magnum.
There is lever action & bolt action rifles in Australia that have many different styles & features & are made by many manufacturers. I'll leave it there for now but would love any questions & or debates. I do intend of covering 22 lr , 222, 223, 243, 6.5x55 , 308 , 303, 12g & 410 shotgun . 9mm 38/357 , 44 mag & 45 Colt & acp.



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Oz judge
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Oz judge » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:22 pm

Remember these are just my opinions & I'm looking forward to input from others.
I'll cover the 22lr & mabey 222 & 223. 1st 22lr or long rifle. Great little round & many excellent rifles made for the good old 22 or rimfire. The 22lr will put some meat on the table in a what if senario & it will offer some moral & protection. Yes it is cheap to buy & you can carry a fair bit of ammo. For self defence the 22lr could be used as far out as 400m & fend off wild dogs out to mabey 150-200 meters. NOW I'm not saying KILL just saying land wounding hits at those ranges. But as for killing power of anything the size of a dog or larger 100 meters would be as far as could be expected in the hands of a good shooter. But realistically 70 m - 100m is the expected maximum range for small game for the table. A 22lr will kill kangaroos with a good brain shot so it is a worthwhile piece of kit , as a kangaroo will feed a lot of people & there's quite a few Roos Australia wide. & at ranges under 50-70 m the 22lr can provide useful protective power. There is also lots of good subsonic ammunition available for the 22lr & that would be my main use. To gather birds & small game out to 40-50 meters 40 - 42gr subsonic ammo would be my choice. There are many many great 22lr rifles. From $280-400 for a new cheap rifle with a $100 for a 4x or 3-9x40 scope & $50-70 per 500 rounds of ammo it's a very good choice to have at leased one 22 in your safe. 2nd hand good condition 22's can be had for as little as $50-100.
Lever actions might be a good choice for the survivors who wants a good lightweight close range rifle that holds more ammo , upto 15 rounds in some cases. That would also make for a good defensive 22.
There are very good heavy barrelled 22lr rifles intended for target & varmint shooting pests, with a good scope on these rifles I have shot eggs at 300meters . Please don't get hooked on the American prepper style of needing 30k rounds of ammo it's just not necessary in Australia. Sure have some extra for friends & bartering 5000 rounds is HEAPS in my book.



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Oz judge
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Oz judge » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:07 pm

222 & 223. Both great little.22 cal centre firearms cartridges. 222 cal rifles dominated the roo shooting industry for quite awhile as they are quite efficient concerning powder consumption & barrel life. But the 223 or 5.56x45 in military terms has all but left the 222 for dead. I believe it would be handy to stock some 222 ammo for bartering as there are definitely 222 rifles around. It's hard to leave the 223 off the preppers list because it's so versatile, light weight, mild recoil, very good range 0-600 meters in good hands for defensive shooting & at leased 250 m head shot capable on game such as roo , pig & deer ect. It will kill medium game with well placed heart / lung shots to 200 meters maybe more. Can be had in so many types of rifles it's not funny. To me the only downside to 222 or 223 caliber rifles are the noise! All the rifles from this size & up are extremely loud! You will draw a lot of attention to yourself shooting these rifles. The 223 will easily shoot through most walls & cars & most clothing out too ranges of 400m. If you can hand load or reload your own ammo then you could make up subsonic ammunition & that would be great to have for gathering game for food as the 223 tends to blow up violently & will spoil edible meat. 223 ammunition can be used in police & military rifles & vice versa there ammo can be used in most 223 rifles. It's a very good choice for the Australian prepper . I believe the 22lr , 223 , 308 , 303 & 12g & 410 shotguns a 9mm handgun can be looked apon as standard Australian prepper equipment or firearms. As for rifles, every action conceivable is chambered in 223. I believe this cartridge should be used in a lightweight general purpose rifle that can be carried everywhere & used for everything.



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Oz judge
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Oz judge » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:29 pm

Next up 243 Winchester & 6.5x55 Swedish & 270 Winchester. All 3 are exceptional hunting cartridges for Australian game animals & I can not fault any of them. All have plenty of power & probably more / longer range than any other cartridges that I'll concentrate on. All 3 of these are in my buddies lists & my own. These have 1000 meters defensive range & will kill as far as you can hit. These 3 are around in good enough numbers that ammunition is probably worth keeping some on hand for bartering. & if you meet or come across a man armed with one of these expect him to be a crack shot & someone to befriend & not mess with. They chose this rifle over 223 or 308 for a reason ( just like me ). Good chance he or she reloads & knows how to hunt as well. These three calibers also can be chambered in lightweight hunting rifles , as there recoil is moderate.



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Oz judge
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Oz judge » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:24 pm

Ok stepping into realm of the big hitters. 7mm & 30 calibers & upto 375 caliber. This category will be dominated by the 30 caliber cartridges. 30/30, 7.62x39 ( ak47 , sks ) 308 Winchester or 7.62x51, 7.62x54r ( Russian or mosin nagant ) 303 British, 300 win mag , 8mm Mauser. Ect ect.
7 mm- 8mm or roughly .284 - .323 of a inch is the size or diameter ( worked out over one hundred years ago ) seems to kill humans & medium to big game the best or most efficiently. When factoring in weight of gun / rifle , weight & size of target , recoil & all other cool things this group really gets the job done . These are the calibers that you find a lot of ww1 & ww2 battle rifles in. Very robust & dependable old rifles that will get the job done in all conditions. If you are hunting game or food that bites or shoots back , at close range these are the calibers / rifles you want. You get hit by a 30 cal ( anywhere ) in a shtf / prepping scenario your pretty much dead. 30/30 lever action rifles are pretty hard to beat. There lightweight & generally accurate & simple & easy to maintain, have plenty of hunting / killing power out to 200 m & defensively maybe 300-400 if you know your rifle.. Be aware there are thousands of semi automatic sks rifles out there waiting to come out for shtf scenario.
The battle rifle of Australia & the British empire the LEE ENFIELD 303 British. Get one if your a bug in person or want a defensive battle rifle. There are thousands of 303's in Australia they are fetching good money now , but get a good one now & learn how to use it. If your a novice get a gunsmith to check it over ! Replace the barrel & have the head space checked if need be. And stock up on ammunition & reload if you can as ammo is expensive & will make a great bartering item as there's one behind every bushies door. Lee Enfields can put more lead down range than just about any other rifle bedsides a semi automatic ( in Australia ) the 303 will kill everything that walks on this continent.
308 rifles are in the the same power range as a 303 , actually they have a tiny bit more power but you'll never notice in a shtf scenario. 308's can be had in old Mauser battle rifles as well, but are far more popular in modern hunting & tacticool rifles. Great for the guy that wants one caliber ammo but a few rifles for different tasks. 308 can be used out 1000 meters also for defensive situations & 300-400 meters is a exceptable range for hunting game for the table. All of these 30 cal rifles do have a fair bit of recoil so be mindful. Remember being prepared means you've practiced & know your kit beforehand. All other 30 cal rifles will do pretty much the same job as the 303 & 308.



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Mike_B
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Mike_B » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:51 am

Thanks for that Oz judge, was quite informative for me who has very little practical experience of firearms. I have come across some other (US I think) posts that suggest the .22lr is a good basic rifle due to almost the same capability as the .22magnum, but ammo especially is much cheaper (is that the same in Aus?)
I agree lever actions appear to be a good choice if you had to make do with only one rifle.


Mike
I wish it weren't so,
but accept the challenge to find an alternative way/s for when things are not the same anymore.

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Oz judge
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Oz judge » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:30 pm

G'day mike. I look at it this way what's your life worth. 22 ammo is cheaper but it's basically the smallest commercial round commonly available, & there's only so much it can do. The 22 magnum is not a full on power house but it's a good step up over the 22lr. Basically 22lr & 22 magnums are built on the same action or the rifles are virtually the same in size & weight, & the ammo is very similar in size & weight. But the 22 magnum has a solid 50-70 meters of useable range & a significant amount or power over the 22lr. You could kill larger animals with less shots & so the ammo to meat ratio could easily go in favour of the magnum. Going on a 500 round brick of ammunition 22lr ammo is roughly $au 50-90. & 22 magnum is $au 120-180. But how much do you need realistically?



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Oz judge
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Oz judge » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:57 pm

One thing to think about. The center fires 223 & larger are extremely loud & I know there's a good chance if somebody comes into my neck of the woods shooting up a storm. They could find them selves in a lot of trouble. That's why I stress about being quiet & not seen or heard.



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Keith
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Keith » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:54 pm

I think choosing the right firearm must be influenced to some extent by where these guns will be used & what they are to be used for. If you plan to hold up in a retreat out bush somewhere, then anything & everything is pretty much acceptable, because you are not going to be carrying these guns & large amounts of ammo far from home. If on the other hand you have to bug out from the city, or even if you have to leave your retreat, then it is going to come down to specific needs. Ammo is important, but so are a lot of other items if you are going into a wilderness area & staying there long term. You are going to have to make some compromise between two principles, minimum weight, & maximum self reliance.
If you are travelling alone, then you are pretty much limited to one long gun & one or two pistols & not a great deal of ammo unless you are using a .22. If you are travelling as part of a group, then you can distribute the weight of more guns & ammo between group members.
These are the firearms I have at present:
One .22 air rifle. Two .22 rimfires. One double barrel black powder 12 gauge shotgun. One .410 shotgun (both shotguns capable of firing round ball). One .62 caliber/20 gauge flintlock fusil. One .32 caliber flintlock rifle with double set triggers. One .70 caliber flintlock pistol. One 15 gauge percussion half stock shotgun. One .40 caliber full stock percussion fusil.
Out of these, the three flintlocks are the most sustainable firearms in a long term wilderness living situation, followed by the two percussions, & the air rifle.
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Keith.


Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com.au/
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Sir Eoin O'Fada
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Re: What firearms would best suit our Aussie scenario?

Post by Sir Eoin O'Fada » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:05 pm

Personally, I'd have a bolt action .22 rf rifle and a 20 gauge shotgun.
One can carry a lot of .22rf ammo and far more smokeless powder to reload shot shells.
Forget muzzleloaders as black powder is bulky, charge for charge with smokeless.

Muzzleloaders have no advantages over smokeless breechloaders, that's the reason that they are only used nowadays for a bit of fun.
Nostalgia will never win out over practicality.

I tend to favour the bow and spear as practical survival weapons.



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