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by Keith
Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:12 pm
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Thunda wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:41 pm
A .22 using sub sonic's is enough for anyone to get a feed anywhere.

It will take down a roo at 150 metres, how do l know? I do it every day and I'm ex military and pro shooter.

It's quiet, cheap to run, and light, just needs some training in ballistics and ya can stockpile a ton of rounds.

Nothing beats trapping, l started rabbit trapping at 12yo, and picking dead wool in the droughts to get my start, that was in the fiftys l still use snares and hunt with throwing axe and never been hungry.
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by Keith
Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:29 am
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Bilby wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:09 pm
I've been reading more of what's in here, especially regarding rifles and the like. It seems that most preppers on this site are male and guns of any kind are the most essential survival item. Whilst growing up from childhood with bolt action .22 type rifles, I have always found them cumbersome to walk around with and holding steady to shoot. I'm only 5ft and not a physically strong middle-aged woman now. From a prepping viewpoint, I make up for these short comings by being mentally strong, extremely resourceful and with a wide skill base. I'll only be hunting small introduced species like rabbits and foxes to eat. I have a large land holding and there's enough rabbits and foxes to live off for the rest of my life there. I've grown up trapping rabbits on land in the day and eels in rivers at night for food. From my viewpoint, guns of any kind are not the weapon of choice here. One shot from a firearm will send animals underground and me too. My dad made me a ripper hunting knife decades ago from the highest grade steel and I'll trust that to survive with over a gun anytime. I find ferrets great to hunt with and they aren't noisy, although the little buggers bite hard.
When the SHTF, I'll be hiding my guns and ammo away. For me to survive, I believe it's paramount that I stay very quiet and away from as much of the human population as I can. I pay painful attention to what's happening to women in war torn areas around the world. What happens to women when men catch them, scares the crap out of me and is my biggest fear for when war comes to our shores. I can't fight or hunt big game like you guys, but I can survive like a marsupial and help others out. If I can't stay on my prepping property to survive during the coming war, then my chances of making it through and living beyond the aftermath of it aren't good at all.
Bilby I think you are underestimating your capabilities, & what you would be prepared to do in order to survive. Guns to my way of thinking are an equalizer, & that is what you NEED. I would probably not be here today had I not had a gun. I am not claiming it is the be all & end all, but there are occasions when nothing else but a gun will do.

Totally agree that there are other important tools to have & carry, a good knife & for me, a tomahawk. I also agree that trapping will supply you with most of your food. You can't survive on rabbit meat alone, but there are goats, wild boar, ducks & other fowls. All can be trapped. I think you should expand your thinking Bilby, from reading your comments I feel that you are more than capable of looking after yourself in a variety of situations. You are a prepper after all.
Regards, Keith.
by Keith
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:03 am
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Warrigal wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:33 am
The idea of carrying a longarm and handgun for foraging and possible self defence is a perfectly valid concept and one which has been well proven under the kinds of situations which Survivalists prep for.

I agree that keeping a low profile under the conditions being discussed in this thread will of the utmost importance.

For that reason I would advocate carrying a few snares as these are quiet, efficient, weigh little and take up little space.

I do not see myself hunting in the sense we do now in a SHTF gug out situation but rather "foraging," meaning taking game as,when and if the opportunity presents itself.

I do not have enough experience of flintlocks as hunting kit to be able to make many intelligent noises about them but I see no reason why a Survivalist who is highly familiar with these arms would be all that disadvantaged by using them even though at this stage I would personally opt for a .357 Magnum lever action carbine and a double or single action revolver in the same calibre.

This kit would be adequate for most Australian game animals, at least where I live.

The combination is also very versatile and having both long arm and handgun chambered for the same cartridge would eliminate the need to carry more than one type of ammunition.

Lever actions are NOT my favourite action type but they will do their job if you do yours and even though I would prefer a pump action to a lever, I know of no manufacturer currently making a pump action .357 Magnum carbine any longer.

The value of a handgun to the man on the land or the Survivalist is that a handgun leaves you with both hands free for work while the gun is secured to your person where it is out of the way till needed.

The handgun is also useful in a foraging scenario as it can be accessed stealthily without any excessive movement on your part which may spook any animal you are trying to take for food.

Handguns are viable hunting kit although sadly very underestimated for this purpose in Australia propbably because so many States either disallow handgun hunting or do their best to discourage it.

Many world jurisdictions do the same with bow hunting making even the mere possession of broadheads a serious offence.

Have an effective means of defence from feral dogs is hardly paranoia for many people in rural Australia even now!

Post SHTF I expect dog packs to be a short term, but very real threat for people in both the cities and the countryside.

Possible self defence from any feral humans who may be wandering around is also a perfectly reasonable cause for including a handgun in your bug out kit.
Good point re the feral dogs, I have been attacked by feral dogs in the past. A bow I guess would be okay for defence in that situation up until they are on you, then not of much use. Then again it is much the same with a gun, in the end if it is a pack, it comes down to clubbing them with the rifle/gun or using a knife or tomahawk. Anyway, I think you need to be prepared for these situations & go well armed.
One advantage re the gun though, the noise of a gun will often send dogs running. On one occasion only the one dog kept coming at me & I managed to stop him before he reached me, just!
Keith.
by Keith
Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:53 am
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Bilby wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:17 pm
The last thing I want to be carring around with me in a 'bugging out alone' situation, is a gun/s and boxes of bullets ...what load whilst on the run! The best way to get myself killed in the middle of the shtf, is to fire off a round or two or three. The thought of being as loud as possible seems idiotic to me. Being quiet and camouflaged, whether in an urban or natural environment is the key to my survival. It is much easier and safer to hunt and fish without guns.
Different people will always agree & disagree on the subject of using a gun over a bow, personally I would like to carry both. Bow & arrow are not much defence against a gun, & although we will be keeping as low a profile as we can, we can't ignore the fact that we may at some time find ourselves having to defend ourselves.
When shooting game with a gun you have to work fast, take the game & leave the area. Small game is easy, larger game you just take the hind legs, unless you have enough people to field dress the game & stand watch at the same time. Even then that shot may bring unwanted company & you may be outnumbered.
In my family group we have bows & guns; muzzle-loaders & breach-loaders.
Keith.
by Keith
Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:27 am
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

I can't read your posts Grumpy, I have placed you on my ignore list.
by Keith
Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:39 am
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Hand guns are mainly for self defence at close range, that is why some people carry them. My pistol being a smoothbore can digest round ball, bird shot, buckshot, or a combination of any two of these. Great at close range on any predator.
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Keith.
by Keith
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:39 pm
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

John wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:32 pm
Agree with you Keith I’d like to stay out of sight an mind rather than being in a fire fight an use my firearms do hunting meat.
I guess I’m thinking of worst case hoping for the best
I’m not up on using paper cartridges An how fast loading is but has given me something to think about I might have to do the ask around locally see if some one can bring me up to speed.
I think it would be worth while skill to learn can’t hurt to have that skill as a back up when the nitro powder runs out
Apparently in the Great Depression a lot of people reverted to using muzzle-loading guns to feed the family. Of course you can always reload modern cartridges with black powder if you have the gear.
Paper cartridges were used by the military because it was much faster to reload.
https://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/ ... idges.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=88&v=ddtJRaPsP4Q
There is more information on muzzle-loading on this board on this forum.
Keith.
by Keith
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

John wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:32 am
Very interesting question Keith I guess the tried An true flint lock or cap an ball have there place in a bug out situation on foot due to there light weight. And in the right hands can be a very accurate weapon that’s more than capable of killing anything in Australia.
The only down side I can think of is I wouldn’t like to be in a fire fight only being able to load one at a time.

I’ve done a lot of thinking about what I would take if I had to leave quick on foot An Id have to say I would have to go with my .22 Hornet which has been improved to a K hornet.
It’s very lightweight packs a very surprising punch for a little pill I’ve killed plenty of bigger sized game with correct bullet placement.
Very accurate very light weapon along with the amo.
I’d love to be able to carry my big hitters like my 300 mag or or 270 but to heavy on foot
All so I don’t think you’d leave with out a .357 strapped to your side if possible hard hitting at close range amo isn’t to heavy to carry and again a pretty accurate weapon in a close quarters fire fight.
Not taking anything away from the flint locks in a survival situation due to there durability weight and the ability to recover lead mould your own balls even make your own powder in the long term.
There just not something Ive had a lot to do with other than a shot here An there with friends that shoot black powder. Maybe something I should put some time and effort in to in the future so at least I have that knowledge
I have been under fire, & only having a muzzle-loader does not worry me in that respect. Using paper cartridges makes it quicker & easier when you have to keep your head down, but I plan on keeping a low profile & staying out of fire fights if I can. People with modern guns tend to use the ammo up pretty fast, especially if it is a semi-auto. I only shoot when I have a clear target. For me it is a matter of priority & sustainability. I expect to be doing more hunting than fighting.
Keith.
by Keith
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:16 pm
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Re: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

MikeA wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:44 pm
Interesting question, is there a go too all rounder firearm for Australian conditions? We have such diverse wildlife.
I would go a .223R for larger game and as a self defence firearm against pigs or dogs. There are combo rifles so a 410 or 12 gauge/ .22LR might be the go for birds and rabbits so it would feed you ok.
As they are still legal in SA I would fit a chassis to my 9mm handgun converting it into a carbine. The 9mm would be versatile enough, and the semi auto capability can only be an asset.

If I had to bug out today, I would be hard pressed to just take one longarm. 12 gauge is versatile but ammo is heavy. .22LR can carry lots of ammo without weight but is it ideal? Any one of my .30cal hunting rifles would be the go but ammo is heavy, of course it will easily take down anything in this country but its brutal on rabbits
I don't think this is about being in Australia, we have everything from rabbits to buffalo, or at least we used to! In the Territory I would head shoot Geese, sometimes two with one shot with a .22. I hunted Buffalo with a .50 caliber muzzle-loading rifle. To me this all comes down to what you prefer to use. If I can only carry one gun, then I choose my .60 caliber/20 gauge flintlock fusil. Why? Because it is versatile & sustainable. I can shoot anything from small birds with shot to goats, roos & wild boar with buckshot or round ball or buck & ball. IF a lock spring breaks I can replace it. If it breaks again & I have no spares then I use the gun as a matchlock or tinderlock. Same with my .70 caliber smoothbore pistol. I can remould the spent lead retrieved from shot game, & I can carry extra gunpowder in gunpowder bags that will add very little extra weight (unlike modern ammunition).

These firearms were used in the settlement of both New Worlds, & have been in constant use for over 300 years. I honestly don't know of any other firearm that I can claim is as good as a muzzle-loading gun/rifle for long term bush survival. But like I said, this is a personal choice.

Yes I have modern breach loading guns & rifles, & if we have to go further into the bush from our off grid home in the forest, as a family we will carry these guns with us.

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This little .32 caliber flintlock rifle with double set triggers will take anything from small game up to goats, roos & medium sized pigs. It can digest round ball & conicals & it runs on the smell of Black Powder. The ammo is light & spent lead can be remoulded. Gunpowder weighs very little & would last a lifetime.
Keith.
by Keith
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:46 am
Forum: Weapons
Topic: Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?
Replies: 42
Views: 2208

Bugging Out Alone. What is your choice & why?

Within the legal restrictions & your own financial ability, if you had to leave your home & live in the bush, what firearm would/can you choose to take with you?
You can choose one longarm & one hand gun or some other type of hunting tool. Please explain why you choose these arms, what are their advantages?
Keith.